Hi,
I want to use a Fluksometer for my German electricity meter (EMH type ehz-IW8E2A5L0EQ2P, see http://shop.co-met.info/artikeldetails/kategorie/zaehler/artikel/amh-dre...) for saving data automatically to Pvoutput. The data I want to gather is the kWh consumed and the kWh returned by a PV system.
In Germany they use the Smart Message Language protocol and D0 interface on electricity meters which can be read by using an Optical Probe (see several 'Schreib-Lesekopf' on http://wiki.volkszaehler.org/hardware/controllers).
Does anybody know if it is possible using the Fluksometer in combination with an Optical Probe?
Cheers,
Vince
I think it shall be no problem with these lesekopf:
http://wiki.volkszaehler.org/hardware/controllers/ir-schreib-lesekopf-tt...
I see on the electricity meter that it has an blinking led who flashes 10000 pulses /kWh, so the Flukso meterconstante will be 10.
The power supply for the lesekopf can be connected to pin 6a on the FLM if the current consumption is lower than 25 mA.
Thanks for the reply.
I don't have much knowledge about electricity or data logging so I still have several questions.
What I want to accomplish is to get the daily amount of the consumed kWh from my electricity supplier and the amount of kWh that the solar system has returned to my electricity supplier. The daily amount of kWh that the solar system has generated is not an issue because that is already available on the internet via the portal of SMA.
With this data I want to determine the daily total amount of consumed kWh (= consumed kWh from my electricity supplier + consumed kWh from the solar system).
The consumed kWh from my electricity supplier and the returned kWh to my electricity supplier are available on my electricity meter from EMH by using an Optical Probe. This data must go in the Fluksometer and uploaded to PVoutput.
There are two different ways of connecting the Optical Probe to the electricity meter:
First = https://www.dropbox.com/s/zcoulrb3ip3lg2h/IR-Lesekopf%20Anschluss%201.jpg
Second = https://www.dropbox.com/s/j29pqtuuo5zvezv/IR-Lesekopf%20Anschluss%202.jpg
Does anyone know which of these two is the correct connection in combination with the Fluksometer?
Before purchasing the hardware I need to be sure that it will work. Can anyone guarantee it (Flukso does not reply on emails or phone calls...)?
Cheers,
Vince
I really don't know that because i have not such a electricity meter :-(
Anyone else (perhaps Flukso)?
Without software modifications you won't get the expected result. As can be seen from the eHZ-spec the two interfaces shown by your images represent data interfaces corresponding to the "Smart Message Language"(SML)-protocol - picture 1 is the readonly port, picture 2 the bidirectional port; to get the data into the Fluksometer there actually an SML-parser needs to run (see http://wiki.volkszaehler.org/software/sml and note that the FluksoUSB was some predecessor of the current FLM and works completely different) - the FLMv2b firmware is capable to interpret the Dutch P1 protocol which is different to SML...
Fluc's answer refers to the fact that you may interface pulses (so a blinking LED in the takt of consumed or provided electricity) to the FLM - but this is something different than provided by the eHZ (from the spec I cannot obtain any pulse output capability)
I don't say that it would not be possible with the FLM, but IMHO not with the current firmware... If your goal is to load it into PVOutput, thus get a graphical display, maybe you are better dealt with what the Volkszaehler provides in the first place...
What you can try for testing and get an understanding of the data transmitted by your meter - get a LAMP on your computer (use Virtualbox if you are on Windows) and follow the Volkszaehler hints on interpreting SML-messages... Then you are just a tiny step away from putting the data into an Excel (or html5 flotchart) and see what you want to see; the FLM is made primarily for a different use case...
Thanks for the reply.
The Volkzähler solutions will not work in my case because the all need PortForwarding on the router. The owner of the router which I use does not want to accept any PortForwarding...
I see a lot of items on this forum about a S0 Pulse (see i.e. http://www.schnap.com.au/kilowatt-hour-meter/single-phase-electric-kilow...). It this a way to accomplish my goals in combination with the Fluksometer?
Cheers,
Vince
Yes, but as I wrote, the eHz seems not to provide any pulses... By the way: Using the Volkszaehler outline does not mean that you should pump your data into the internet in the first place; I meant, that with the described tools (in the particular case a local linux installation with an SML-parser and an attached read head) you first can learn about your meter's capabilities locally and then second you may decide how to go further...
Going for an S0-capable meter and/or current clamps is the "usual" way to use an FLM... - S0 preferred for PV as here you deal with a lot of reactive power...
The hole idea is to monitor the consumed kWh and the returned kWh on internet and not local. That is a second reason why the Volkzähler solutions will not work in my case.
Beside that I don't want to monitor the kWh that is generated by the solar system because this data is already available on the internet via the SMA portal.
I only want to monitor the consumed kWh an the returned kWh via internet/Fluksometer. It is still not clear to me if that is possible using an S0-capable meter (sorry, but my knowledge is very limited)...
yes, as S0 == pulse; use the search engine of your choice with search term "site:flukso.net s0"
Thanks for the reply.
I had already done the search but there are a lot of results and it is still very complicated for me. For instance, I don't know how many S0-meters I need and which one is prefered (Din Rail or Clamp) and the value (50A less or more, phases, etc).
Does anybody know if there is a link available which handles a simular case?
Cheers,
Vince
Hi Vince, how is you electricity wiring, two phase or three phase ?
How many amp is your main fuse ?
Can you place a picture of your fusebox (open of course).
If you have place in the fusebox, one can put a din rail energie-meter with So output (for ex. 20 $ on Ebay).
Or you can clips a current clamp around one of the main wires in the case of 2 phase.
It took a while but I gathered some information.
The house has a three phase connection but only one phase is used (= basic situation = no 380 Volt electricity is installed).
The main fuse is 40 Ampere (see https://www.dropbox.com/s/z861xhttcakhjxn/IMG_20140607_175850.jpg).
The next picture (see https://www.dropbox.com/s/21lxqu7a2krlnbs/IMG_20140607_175909.jpg) shows some wiring. On the left side there is the main fuse and the right side of the picture is showing the Solar connections.
My questions:
Is it correct that I need an electrician when using a din rail and I can install clamps by myself?
When using clamps, which one do I need?
How many din rails or clamps do I need when I want to monitor the daily consumed kWh from my electricity supplier and the amount of kWh that the solar system has returned to my electricity supplier (; I do not want to monitor the daily amount of kWh that the solar system has generated because it is already available on the internet via the portal of SMA)?
Can I use the Fluksometer without software/hardware adjustments to accomplish my goals?
Cheers,
Vince
Do you have a picture who shows more of the fusebox ? On the right i see 3 phase differential, is this for Solar ?
For your consumed kWh you need one 50 A current clamp
https://www.flukso.net/content/50amp-current-clamp
or a 65 A din kWh meter like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181298956727?_trksid=p2055120.m1438.l2649&ssPage...
For Solar in the case of single phase and depends of the current of the fuse, if 16 or 20 Amp use this one for ex:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171214229766?_trksid=p2055120.m1438.l2649&ssPage...
For Solar only a din kWh meter can work faultlessly.
And, most important, if you not familiar with electricity, you must have support by a qualified electrician because the quality of the installation of kWh meters is primordial for your safety (and your house).
A current clamp can be easily clicked around a brown incoming phase wire after the main fuse (on the left picture), of course the one that feeds your single phase installation.
Use only kWh meters with puls-constante of 500 - 1000 - 2000 pulses/kWh.
Yes, the FLM can work out of the box with this. Just some configuration needed depending of the use of current clamp or pulse kWh meters.
FLUC: Yes, on the right side is the Solar.
Hereby some additional pictures:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lve7qi9rxpe9tkg/IMG_20140607_174718.jpg is showing the - so called - "Trennvorrichter" of the Solar system (no idea what it is). It is also visible on picture https://www.dropbox.com/s/21lxqu7a2krlnbs/IMG_20140607_175909.jpg.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/omei3sb2zsdfved/IMG_20140607_175715.jpg is showing the Electricity meters (the right one is for the generated kWh by the Solar and the left one is the for the consumed kWh and the returned kWh). The right Electricity meter is situated beneath the "Trennvorrichter" of the Solar system and the left Electricity meter is situated beneath the 3 phase differential.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ha90gj54ypcxyq9/IMG_20140607_175735.jpg is showing the left side of the fuse box with all the normal switches to switch a group on/off. On the left corner of this picture you see the main fuse which is also visible on picture https://www.dropbox.com/s/z861xhttcakhjxn/IMG_20140607_175850.jpg.
Someone told me that one pulse meter is not enough for reaching my goals. This is because a pulse meter can't make a difference between a possitive value (= consumed kWh from my electricity supplier) and a negative value (= returned kWh to my electricity supplier). If that is correct I need two pulse meters and it is still a big question for me how to install them.......
(p.s. I don't want to measure the generated kWh by the Solar because that data is already available).
Cheers,
Vince
Vince,
if you actually don't know exactly what you are doing, you should keep your fingers off the switch board and leave it to an expert; this refers to the pulse meters as well as to the current clamps (your insurance will thank you or refuse to pay if you blow up something)
To explain the issue and potential options:
The situation is as follows: Your utility provider supplies you with power over the mains line into a main switch and a main eMeter (3).
Depending on your solar installation (feed after main eMeter - "Eigenverbrauch" or before the eMeter: feed into grid only) this main eMeter shall be either bidirectional (then it has to show what is consumed from the mains directed to the flat and also what is fed back into the mains at a surplus of solar power) or it is unidirectional, then it must have a "Rücklaufsperre" preventing running backwards on a surplus of solar power - this you should check at first - utilities will get crazy if the meter runs not intently backwards...
You state that solar supply is measured via the inverter (SMA) - actually this is the measurement at (2).
If the main eMeter does not provide the amount of consumption/surplus supply itself, then consumption is measured at (1) as here the flow to the consumers occurs only - here you would set a current clamp or a pulse meter to detect consumption - this would be a sum of what is taken from (3) and (2).
Well, then the calculation is as follows: (1) - (2) > 0 equals the supply by the utility provider; (1) - (2) < 0 is what you send into the grid...
The FLM cannot do the difference also it cannot detect the flow of direction at (3).
The usual setup is as described: A consumption measurement (current clamp of pulse meter) and a supply measurement (pulse meter); then you may use PVoutput (search the forum) to calculate the difference; or you program it yourself as the MQTT broker provides the measurements that easily can be computed...
GEBHARDM,
The main eMeter does provide the amount of consumped kWh and the amount of surplus kWh. This is visible on picture https://www.dropbox.com/s/omei3sb2zsdfved/IMG_20140607_175715.jpg. The left eMeter on the picture is the main eMeter (Zweirichtungszähler) with consumped kWh (= Einkauf) and surplus kWh (= Verkauf). Details about this eMeter are here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/53rxo17umo0l41m/EMH%20Typ%20eHZ-IW8E2A5L0EQ.pdf and ). Looking at your explanation it must be a bidirectional eMeter. Do you agree?
If the Fluksometer can not detect the flow of direction at 3 (= main eMeter) then I assume I can not reach my goal (= measuring the consumed kWh and to measure the surplus kWh in order to calculate the totall amount of consumed kWh). Or do I not understand it correct?
Cheers,
Vince
Yes, the eHz is a bidi meter - it
Again, as described, the FLM by itself is not capable to calculate the difference as denoted above (unless you lay hands on by yourself - it's open source...), but it of course is capable to provide the parts to do the calculation yourself (as the eHz itself also is) - for using the FLM you need two meters, one in the consumption path, one in the solar supply path (as the SMA data cannot be used by the FLM); then a DISPLAY alternative to the FLM dash is http://pvoutput.org/ which can take FLM readings and actually also provide the delta... Have a look at PVOutput and judge for yourself if you can use it.
GEBHARDM,
I am using PVOutput already for several months and manually upload the next data:
1) generated kWh by the Solar system (i.e. 10 kWh)
2) exported kWh to my electricity supplier (i.e. 6 kWh)
3) total consumed kWh = consumed kWh from my electricity supplier (i.e. 8 kWh) + consumed kWh from Solar
The consumed kWh from Solar in this sample = 10 kWh - 6 kWh = 4kWh
The total consumed kWh in this sample = 8 kWh + 10 kWh - 6 kWh = 12 kWh
If this is correct then I need three figures to calculate the total consumed kWh. Do you agree?
When you think discretely (in single values obtained once a day) then you are right, BUT...
FLM measures continuously, not just once a day; so your example is misleading with respect to the "total consumption".
Let me try to explain it again.
a) You consume, regardless of the source (1) - so this must not be calculated, but measured continuously... (current clamp or pulse meter)
b) And you generate (2) - so this also must not be calculated, but measured continuously (pulse meter).
This provides two continuous sets of values along the day, one for consumption and one for generation referring to the Watts occurring at a certain timestamp... Use and/or provisioning now are sums of "watts multiplied by time", thus an integral, an area under respective "between" the two "curves" - and those can be calculated.
Now:
Electrons are lazy, they will always search for the shortest path:
If you consume LESS OR EQUAL to what you currently generate, this will be always "self-made" electrons, so from your PV; every watt (hour) generated AND not consumed is exported.
If you consume MORE than what you currently generate, these watts (watt hours) are taken from your supplier and you have to pay for, regardless of how much you may have exported beforehand.
And this is what you can see from the two curves along a day:
Generation above consumption is export.
Generation under consumption is self-use.
Consumption above generation is bought.
This is what PVOutput's several diagram options express, if your provide continuous data - you cannot distinguish the course (sic) of consumption, generation, and export from a single measurement - and this is, what makes the difference.
GEBHARDM,
I can understand you if:
a) the figure for consumed kWh over a certain time stamp (let us say one day) is a negative value when the consumpsion is lower then the export.
b) the figure for consumed kWh over a certain time stamp (let us say one day) is a positive value when the consumpsion is higher then the export.
Is that what you mean; the so called Delta?
Delta means the difference between the consumption and the generation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta#Mathematics
FLUC, that is what I described in my reply to GEBHARDM or not?
Please don't start with "mathematics" - this battle you'll loose... ;-) (therefore I tried to explain it in simple words not using any mathematical terminology, as you just mix up terms)
So, one last try with respect to the last question:
You generate and you consume; export is what you put into the grid; therefore you can only export something generated if you don't use it yourself...
Export is the positive delta, the positive difference of generation and consumption:
(look up meaning in a C tutorial) - there is no export if either (generation = 0) or (consumption > generation) - export is the amount of power you would get refunded by your supplier, so this is measured by the eHz meter.
The isseue with consumption is that the eHz meter only measures the consumed part you took from the supplier; therefore you need a consumption meter behind a point in the house grid where both sources, the generation and the supply, are active.
But enough, I must admit, I am at the end with my latin and also I am fed up with this thread. So, good-bye, as my explanations do not seem to help...
Well, I have to admin that I am also at the end with my latin. Normally questions can - up till now - not be answered using this forem. I'm happy that I did not purchased a Fluksometer already!