I am looking at ordering a DIN mounted single phase kW/h meter with a pulse output of 100 imp/kWh. Can someone confirm that this would be compatible with the Flukso and that I would set the meter constant to 10?
If so an electrician can install a Schneider Electric iEM2000T.
It has a maximum current of 40 Amps, 100 pulses per kWh,and is Din rail mounted.
I use one for my solar generation into a Flukso.
I am in South Australia.
jcumpstay |
I am in Australia. Thanks for your example. Pretty much exactly what i want to do. I just wanted to ensure that 100 pulses per kWh is compatible with the Flukso. Can you confirm what meter constant you used?
michi |
Hmmm... 100 pulses per kWh is *very* coarse. I have a 400 pulse per kWh meter, and I wish I had a 1000 pulse per kWh instead. At 400 pph, I see the meter pulsing once every 40 or 50 seconds or so. That makes it less than useful for tracking down which device consumes what. If you get 100 ppm, that'll lengthen to 3-4 minutes, which is useless for any sort of semi real-time reading.
I'd suggest a meter with 1000 pph. It'll do a better job for you, IMO.
Thanks for the replies - I ended up ordering a few ABB meters with programmable pulse 99-9999/kWh. One 3 phase for incoming mains @ 65A and a single phase for PV - Also 65A even though I know its overkill.
vk2him |
Do you have any links to the ABB meters you got? Thanks
I went with the equivalent for my single phase meter. Also @ 65A.
I haven't installed these yet. Just waiting on electrician. Also I need to work out which terminals to use for the pulse outlet. There is "C", "15" and "16" to choose from.
vk2him |
It looks like the B23 has two SO outputs - You'd connect C (which is 13) and 15 for the flukso
B-Man |
What's the difference between the b23 and b24 to reflect the price?
jcumpstay |
you can see the differences on the tech data sheet here:
ok so why did you choose the B23?
is it for the direct connected over the transformer connected (CT)?
jcumpstay |
Correct - Direct Connect preference and it's the Bronze version on the RS site.
B-Man |
Thanks. looks perfect for what i am after
will purchase one when im closer to install
jcumpstay |
Had meters installed this morning so I will take a few photos and hook up the pulse outputs to the Fluxso when I get home tonight.
Very impressed with the quality of the ABB meters.
jcumpstay |
So I need to figure out which ports are 13 and 15.
The manual exert (link below) isn't particularly helpful because I don't know from which side I should be looking at the screw terminal. Is it the screw terminals in the foreground (front) or background (back) on the pic in the link below?
It would have to be from the front because when it's mounted on the DIN rail you can't access from the back?
jcumpstay |
once it's mounted and the cover is on the switchboard you cant access any of the ports so that theory goes out the window. Does anyone know what I should be looking for with a multimeter to identify the pulse?
B-Man |
i would hazard a guess and say with screw terminals to the front
put it this way if you wire it up wrong just nothing would happen as the flukso isnt sending anything so the meter will not receive anything.. as they would both be inputs
B-Man |
do you have a better photo of the meter terminals?
jcumpstay |
I tried a few different combinations and finally managed to get the 3-Phase meter pulse output reading correctly :-). totally a trial and error situation.
Turned out it was the two screw terminals towards the back of the picture i posted in an earlier post (back 2). totally counter intuitive.
I'll make sure i take a better photo of which screw terminals ended up being 13 and 15 when i get home tonight. It will also give me a chance to hook up my single phase solar meter in the same way and hopefully my Flukso graph will populate with another line.
I can definitely recommend the ABB meters. totally programmable pulse frequency and length and 100% compatible with the Flukso.
B-Man |
sounds good will help when I go to install mine.
jcumpstay |
Just make sure you have a spare 6 DIN spaces in your switchboard and a sparky that can understand a basic circuit diagram so that the meters can be wired in correctly. I basically did everything but turn the screwdriver when the sparky was installing my meters. Not really his fault as this was a totally new type of job for him.
jcumpstay |
A few photos for anyone that has plans to use the ABB meters in their setup:
Also a quick screenshot to prove that i do in fact have things working :-). Main power use is sky high due to 3 phase A/C running full blast this morning. The missus doesn't do well when it's 2 degrees outside!
Thanks Marcus, any idea of tolerance at the shorter length end, ie, 150ms?
gebhardm |
The pulse detector works on edge, so there actually should be no difference on any pulse width assuming the pulse is "seen" at all - see https://github.com/flukso/flm02/blob/develop/avr/b/main.c#L508
Be aware that the (maximum) number of pulses generated at peak load should fit into the time window available. So, the longer you make the pulses the lesser the actual peak load will be, you can detect at all. An example: 1 pulse per Wh (1000imp/kWh) => @30ms (50% duty cycle, so also gap at least 30ms - the "window" in which the next pulse may occur) you can detect 1/.06 = 16,67 Wh/sec equiv to 60 kWh (which should be sufficient ;-)) - with 150ms it would be "just" 1/.3 = 3,3 Wh/sec equiv to 12 kWh (which still should be sufficient); calculate for your actual pulses per unit - so with 150 ms you should be more than fine :-)
Are you are in Australia or New Zealand?
If so an electrician can install a Schneider Electric iEM2000T.
It has a maximum current of 40 Amps, 100 pulses per kWh,and is Din rail mounted.
I use one for my solar generation into a Flukso.
I am in South Australia.
I am in Australia. Thanks for your example. Pretty much exactly what i want to do. I just wanted to ensure that 100 pulses per kWh is compatible with the Flukso. Can you confirm what meter constant you used?
Hmmm... 100 pulses per kWh is *very* coarse. I have a 400 pulse per kWh meter, and I wish I had a 1000 pulse per kWh instead. At 400 pph, I see the meter pulsing once every 40 or 50 seconds or so. That makes it less than useful for tracking down which device consumes what. If you get 100 ppm, that'll lengthen to 3-4 minutes, which is useless for any sort of semi real-time reading.
I'd suggest a meter with 1000 pph. It'll do a better job for you, IMO.
Michi.
Checkout this one in Oz - http://www.latronics.com.au/products/latronics-energy-meter
Thanks for the replies - I ended up ordering a few ABB meters with programmable pulse 99-9999/kWh. One 3 phase for incoming mains @ 65A and a single phase for PV - Also 65A even though I know its overkill.
Do you have any links to the ABB meters you got? Thanks
Here is one of them: http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/digital-power-meters/7894114/
And a product brochure that shows all the models here:
http://docs-asia.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/125d/0900766b8125d089.pdf
Michi.
Thanks Michi. You're on the money.
So you ended up with a b24 model... and that allows 9999 pulses/kwh?
and is compatible with the flukso?
looks like I might get one of them too then.
where did you purchase yours and what price?
I went with the B23 65A 3 phase module here:
http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/digital-power-meters/7894105/
I went with the equivalent for my single phase meter. Also @ 65A.
I haven't installed these yet. Just waiting on electrician. Also I need to work out which terminals to use for the pulse outlet. There is "C", "15" and "16" to choose from.
It looks like the B23 has two SO outputs - You'd connect C (which is 13) and 15 for the flukso
What's the difference between the b23 and b24 to reflect the price?
you can see the differences on the tech data sheet here:
http://docs-asia.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/125d/0900766b8125d088.pdf
ok so why did you choose the B23?
is it for the direct connected over the transformer connected (CT)?
Correct - Direct Connect preference and it's the Bronze version on the RS site.
Thanks. looks perfect for what i am after
will purchase one when im closer to install
Had meters installed this morning so I will take a few photos and hook up the pulse outputs to the Fluxso when I get home tonight.
Very impressed with the quality of the ABB meters.
So I need to figure out which ports are 13 and 15.
The manual exert (link below) isn't particularly helpful because I don't know from which side I should be looking at the screw terminal. Is it the screw terminals in the foreground (front) or background (back) on the pic in the link below?
Manual
https://goo.gl/photos/rnqba6QcrK2fDA7Z6
My meter pic
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMBIiy3Sgxr1mwfqm5vkEO2eP3XvAUFbSpI...
It would have to be from the front because when it's mounted on the DIN rail you can't access from the back?
once it's mounted and the cover is on the switchboard you cant access any of the ports so that theory goes out the window. Does anyone know what I should be looking for with a multimeter to identify the pulse?
i would hazard a guess and say with screw terminals to the front
put it this way if you wire it up wrong just nothing would happen as the flukso isnt sending anything so the meter will not receive anything.. as they would both be inputs
do you have a better photo of the meter terminals?
I tried a few different combinations and finally managed to get the 3-Phase meter pulse output reading correctly :-). totally a trial and error situation.
Turned out it was the two screw terminals towards the back of the picture i posted in an earlier post (back 2). totally counter intuitive.
I'll make sure i take a better photo of which screw terminals ended up being 13 and 15 when i get home tonight. It will also give me a chance to hook up my single phase solar meter in the same way and hopefully my Flukso graph will populate with another line.
I can definitely recommend the ABB meters. totally programmable pulse frequency and length and 100% compatible with the Flukso.
sounds good will help when I go to install mine.
Just make sure you have a spare 6 DIN spaces in your switchboard and a sparky that can understand a basic circuit diagram so that the meters can be wired in correctly. I basically did everything but turn the screwdriver when the sparky was installing my meters. Not really his fault as this was a totally new type of job for him.
A few photos for anyone that has plans to use the ABB meters in their setup:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PRoE8Age8xozCdHKmL7TeChCt33ZJSj5qNhLCA...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/I2ImbFU_5OAEIvpHClR-VrgLpXAeR06MKgR6yB...
Also a quick screenshot to prove that i do in fact have things working :-). Main power use is sky high due to 3 phase A/C running full blast this morning. The missus doesn't do well when it's 2 degrees outside!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xYqyflDPifKdgI0oP4DtnJFS42e1bL0HhT3mIH...
@JCUMPSTAY
- I bought the ABB B21 but won't be ready to install for a few months - what pulse width did you program yours for, I think it defaults to 100ms?
Thanks
@VK2HIM: Down to 30ms should be no issue - tested with a homebrew pulse former set to 30ms - https://github.com/gebhardm/energyhacks/tree/master/Impulsformer
Thanks Marcus, any idea of tolerance at the shorter length end, ie, 150ms?
The pulse detector works on edge, so there actually should be no difference on any pulse width assuming the pulse is "seen" at all - see https://github.com/flukso/flm02/blob/develop/avr/b/main.c#L508
Be aware that the (maximum) number of pulses generated at peak load should fit into the time window available. So, the longer you make the pulses the lesser the actual peak load will be, you can detect at all. An example: 1 pulse per Wh (1000imp/kWh) => @30ms (50% duty cycle, so also gap at least 30ms - the "window" in which the next pulse may occur) you can detect 1/.06 = 16,67 Wh/sec equiv to 60 kWh (which should be sufficient ;-)) - with 150ms it would be "just" 1/.3 = 3,3 Wh/sec equiv to 12 kWh (which still should be sufficient); calculate for your actual pulses per unit - so with 150 ms you should be more than fine :-)